tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post3567827739738079814..comments2024-02-29T00:56:45.315-08:00Comments on Bryanna Clark Grogan’s Vegan Feast Kitchen/ 23rd Century Table: CRANBERRIES, AND A SHORT RANTBryanna Clark Groganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13235333928055873948noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-67801673324523426182008-01-01T10:51:00.000-08:002008-01-01T10:51:00.000-08:00Thanks for that link, Colleen! Excellent article!...Thanks for that link, Colleen! Excellent article!Bryanna Clark Groganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13235333928055873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-37342311666060602172008-01-01T08:45:00.000-08:002008-01-01T08:45:00.000-08:00I read this post awhile back and this morning saw ...I read this post awhile back and this morning saw the following from Dr. McDougall in my inbox:<BR/>http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/dec/juice.htm<BR/><BR/>...so there's another good doctor on a similar "rant" -- well said both times. Somehow this has become a thorn in my side, too...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-9902576086986624522007-12-09T14:43:00.000-08:002007-12-09T14:43:00.000-08:00Thanks, alphablogs-- good to know about canada-9-5...Thanks, alphablogs-- good to know about canada-9-5!Bryanna Clark Groganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13235333928055873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-71766723753966298162007-12-09T13:55:00.000-08:002007-12-09T13:55:00.000-08:00great blog, great post! blogged about it herehttp...great blog, great post! blogged about it here<BR/><BR/>http://www.alphablogs.net/article/canada-9-5-fourth-edition/alphablogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08178774875149300806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-75122364564776967692007-11-17T19:46:00.000-08:002007-11-17T19:46:00.000-08:00Bryanna --I can respect that you would assume my j...Bryanna --<BR/><BR/>I can respect that you would assume my judgment is clouded by the fact that I do promote a brand of mangosteen juice. However, I would make the point that I promote it because I studied, not that I studied it because I promote it. I’ll also point out that I said nothing about it nor solicited anyone. I simply debated with you some of the things you said.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I have long since read the article to which you refer… it’s the same article that every person I meet who wants to prove to me that mangosteen is a scam points to. Opposing points of view are allowed and I accept that Mr. Moss believes as he does, though I think much of his reasoning is flawed and guided by western allopathic thinking. <BR/><BR/>I would invite you to read the writing of Dr. Amod Tootla, voted by Cambridge University to be one of the top 2000 scientists of the 21st century and voted by the Consumer Research Council of America to be one of the top surgeons in America. He specializes in treating colon cancer and is one of the world's premier robotic colon cancer surgeons. His point of view is quite the opposite of Mr. Moss' -- he has over 1000 of his patients using mangosteen and is a vocal advocate of its use. Would you suggest a man of his standing is a quack?<BR/><BR/>It's never hard to find someone who will argue to the death why something is not right. In the Spanish Inquisition, one could be put to death for suggesting the Earth was not the center of the universe. Such a way of thinking has not changed with "modern science" either. People's careers are still put to death for daring to go against conventional wisdom. Yet, lessons I was taught in my youth as being hard science fact have been disproven and re-written in my own lifetime. We never change. <BR/><BR/>The fact of the matter remains that facts are facts. To say there are no human studies of the mangosteen is false. This is not simply an opinion… you have only to read PubMed to know this. By way of proof: the following link is the most recent human double blind study published 9 January 2007: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17274236&ordinalpos=10&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum<BR/><BR/>There are more.<BR/><BR/>In addition, there is ample scientific study – all of which is plainly visible -- to explain what the agents in the mangosteen are and what biological activities those agents demonstrate. Science is beginning to unravel the details of the mangosteen, to explain it, but that does not alter the history of its usefulness or the weight of evidence as to its effectiveness.<BR/><BR/>I still stand on the point that you cannot compare the mangosteen to a simple apple juice or cranberry juice, or other off-the-shelf fruits and vegetables. The benefit of the mangosteen is in its Xanthones and those compounds do not exist in any other fruit or vegetable we eat. Again, this is not a statement of subjective opinion driven by a desire to market a product... it's a simple fact.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, buying the fruit in the market is not a substitute for buying a prepared whole fruit product unless the buyer is willing to throw away the tasty pulp and eat the bitter and vile rind. Which I doubt is likely. The benefit of the fruit is in the pericarp, not the pulp. Again, this is not a greedy marketing driven point of view, rather a statement of fact.<BR/><BR/>Let me tell you a story about my mother very quickly. She's 70 this coming summer and she suffers from severe migraines... bent over the toilet puking migraines. She has a prescription medication she can take for it. I'm trying to recall the name as I write this, I want to say it's Darvocet but I may be confusing it with another of her pain meds. Nonetheless, this much I do know, it costs her $60 every time she takes a pill, and it doesn't work unless she takes it just as the migraine is coming on.<BR/><BR/>There's the rub... if she waits until she knows whether she's just got a headache coming on or if it's a migraine before she takes the pill, it's too late to take the pill. On the other hand, if she takes the pill every time a headache is coming on, she's spending $60 on an oversized Tylenol most of the time. Myself... I think it's criminal that one pill costs $60 -- what the heck is in it that costs $60 anyway? <BR/><BR/>I can't help but wonder what makes that different from charging $25 for a bottle of Mangosteen juice? Which... by the way... also seems to stop her migraines… for about $3.<BR/><BR/>In any event Bryanna, the point of my posts was that you made several misstatements in your blog entry. I posted the facts in response. <BR/><BR/>There are human studies. The price is not $40, it is $25. Buying and eating the fruit alone does not provide the same benefits because the Xanthones are in the rind, not the fruit. You cannot compare mangosteen to other fruits and vegetables on the merits of anti-oxidant capacity alone as mangosteen offers far more benefits than this singular point of comparison.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I am driven by the fact that I promote a brand of mangosteen to ensure that misstatements are not perpetuated and people are given accurate information from which they can make informed decisions. We are all driven Bryanna... I by my business, you by your need to sell your books and Mr. Moss by his need to promote his reputation.<BR/><BR/>However, facts speak for themselves.<BR/><BR/>What is telling is that rather than counterpoint what I said in my post, you chose to attack my integrity instead -- you ignore my factual statements and suggest to your reader that I have a motivation to be misleading them (perhaps lying?).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-5401203222466626752007-11-15T11:47:00.000-08:002007-11-15T11:47:00.000-08:00Please read the reports by Ralph Moss on mangostee...Please read the reports by Ralph Moss on mangosteen juice-- links above in the text.Bryanna Clark Groganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13235333928055873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-90122445470065222072007-11-14T21:21:00.000-08:002007-11-14T21:21:00.000-08:00Scott, seeing as how I don't promote mangosteen ju...Scott, seeing as how I don't promote mangosteen juice and you do, who is the more objective?Bryanna Clark Groganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13235333928055873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-27042898686016384432007-11-14T17:19:00.000-08:002007-11-14T17:19:00.000-08:00Hi! I cam here for the first time and love your bl...Hi! I cam here for the first time and love your blog..there are some really nice vegan recipes..I'm a born vegetarian too, and am experimenting with vegan food these days:)<BR/><BR/>-MansiMansihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01109414198476017680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-29334183117776171572007-11-14T12:07:00.000-08:002007-11-14T12:07:00.000-08:00With all due respect, while your article is well w...With all due respect, while your article is well written and passionate, I find it filled with quite a few factual errors on mangosteen. I can't comment on the other fruits as I have not studied them.<BR/><BR/>The mangosteen, however, I am quite familiar with. I am not going to take every misstatement to task, but I would like to hit on some key points.<BR/><BR/>You are comparing the fruits based on their anti-oxidant properties alone. You are comparing apples to tennis shoes. There are a great many other scientifically documented properties of the mangosteen besides anti-oxidant... hard research, including some double blind human studies, on the mangosteen confirms the Xanthones it contains are powerful anti-oxidants, yes, but they also show them to be anti-microbial, anti-inflammatory and a COX-2 specific inhibitor and more.<BR/><BR/>Go to http://www.pubmed.com and search for "mangostana mouthwash" and you're find a concise double-blind human trial that clearly demonstrates using a pericarp extract of mangosteen is an effective treatment for halitosis, plague and gingivitis reducing PBI (papillary bleeding index) significantly. For that matter, go to PubMed and search for “mangosteen” or “Xanthones” and see the long list of publications that appear going back for decades. If you read them all, you’ll find a quote from one researcher who comments that given the biological activity of the mangosteen and the amount of research that had been performed he is surprised no one has brought it to market as a commercial product. (Paraphrased)<BR/><BR/>There are plenty of studies available to support the claims that mangosteen is an effective healing agent... as over a thousand years of practical use by traditional healers would tend to imply. While simply being in a database is not any indication of effectiveness, there are 138 known uses of mangosteen in traditional healing. While scientific research is needed to determine how and why the mangosteen works as a healing agent, and to quantitatively determine how effective an agent it is for a given ailment, the research is not what makes it work, it’s who explains how it works. Healers would not use it for a thousand years if it did nothing. They use because it works. But that’s wandering off into a philosophical debate.<BR/><BR/>Another point you comment on is the fact that mangosteen juice contains none of the fiber. Wrong. Those products, such as XanGo that you cite, which use the whole fruit puree do in fact contain the fiber. It's quite visible in the bottle. In fact, XanGo has enough that when settled the pulp occupies 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle. Yes, that is less fiber than if you ate the whole fruit, including the rind, but to say it contains no fiber is misleading.<BR/><BR/>In addition, your citation of the benefit of the fiber would imply you are talking about the benefits of fiber on the digestive system. There is more than ample historical, scientific and anecdotal evidence that mangosteen is a highly active biological agent in the maintenance of a healthy digestive system. Again, I would encourage the interested reader to visit PubMed and read the research papers on the subject.<BR/><BR/>The problem is that the primary benefit of the mangosteen is NOT in the fruit, it is in the pericarp (rind) of the fruit -- which tastes horrid. Buying whole mangosteen in a market will do nothing for you because you will not eat the rind. The Xanthones and other key phytonutrients are contained in the pericarp, the flavor is in the fruit’s pulp. When you buy whole mangosteen and eat it, you get the natural sugar, a few vitamins and a wonderful flavor, and throw away the healthy part. The benefit of products such as XanGo is in the fact that they deliver the whole fruit benefit in a consumable fashion that is not a barrier to consumption.<BR/><BR/>Another point you are in error on is price. You are accusing the manufacturers of these products of hyping the fruit, and then you hype the price to make your counter point. You quote the price as being $40 for these juices... that's nearly double the actual price of $25 per bottle for XanGo. At $25 per bottle, the price you are paying per serving is slightly less than the price of a bottle of vitamin water at the grocery market. <BR/><BR/>On sale, a bottle of Dasani Plus will cost you a minimum of $1 and contains less nutrition. Consider that XanGo contains a whole fruit puree of mangosteen along with grape, strawberry, cherry and quite a few other natural fruits (to overcome the bitter taste of the pericarp) all of which are natural. There are no concentrates, extracts, preservatives or added sugars. On the other hand... bottled vitamin water is just that... bottled water (probably less safe than your tap water) and a squirt of added vitamins. And it costs more?<BR/><BR/>I could add more, but I've already said enough. Yes, there are other fruits and fresh produce you can eat that are healthy for you. However, none of them contain the 40+ Xanthones found in the pericarp of the mangosteen, representing far more in health and wellness than just anti-oxidant properties, and even if you could buy fresh whole mangosteen outside of the Asian markets, you would not gain the health benefit of the fruit because you wouldn't eat the rind.<BR/><BR/>There's nothing wrong with opposing points of view. However, I would caution confusing uninformed passion for factual debate. A mind and a parachute are much alike… both must be open to work. Do some objective research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-13125837483272308672007-11-07T19:45:00.000-08:002007-11-07T19:45:00.000-08:00Well, it's nothing short of scandalous. Vomit fru...Well, it's nothing short of scandalous. Vomit fruit... that a pretty picture, too.<BR/><BR/>The breast of tofu looks absolutely delicious. I'm going to print that recipe out.<BR/><BR/>by the way Bryanna, I have a cold right now and I've been drinking hot cups of your homemade chicken-style boullion powder, diluted in water, of course. (Although I have been seen eating the powder on it's own a couple of times :p)<BR/>Since making your cutlets for the first time, I've been using only that powder in soups and other. It is amazing and you amaze me.<BR/><BR/>On another note, I don't know if you have been told but Everyday Dish is now available in Quebec :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-57929073451822196862007-11-07T17:30:00.000-08:002007-11-07T17:30:00.000-08:00I couldn't agree more - people need to focus on in...I couldn't agree more - people need to focus on incorporating fresh, whole produce into their diets; NOT juices!!<BR/><BR/>mmm, that cranberry-rosemary-tofu dish looks amazing - so festive for the holiday season! <BR/><BR/>incredible post as always, Bryanna!!LizNoVeggieGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00785142908687097216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-18752606228477375972007-11-07T14:21:00.000-08:002007-11-07T14:21:00.000-08:00Excellent post Bryanna! The power of marketing is ...Excellent post Bryanna! The power of marketing is pretty amazing, isn't it?julie hassonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14352059078512619974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-30206371776260047922007-11-07T09:59:00.000-08:002007-11-07T09:59:00.000-08:00Hi Bryanna. I totally agree with you. I get amused...Hi Bryanna. I totally agree with you. I get amused everytime I see a beverage product advertise its antioxidant and even phytochemical benefits knowing that these nutrients ought to be obtained from natural sources. I also like cranberry juice though I often think about them as a natural treatment for mild UTI. Nice to know that they are rich in antioxidants as well. -- GaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-37296052807798371352007-11-07T08:07:00.000-08:002007-11-07T08:07:00.000-08:00Bryanna,I grew up with mangostene. Yes, dirt chea...Bryanna,<BR/><BR/>I grew up with mangostene. Yes, dirt cheap when I had them. Didn't know that they are so healthy when I ate them. They are so delicious. I missed them so much and can't find them here. <BR/><BR/>I surely don't want to buy the juice if I have tasted the fruit, especially at $50 per bottle. <BR/><BR/>I totally agree with you!<BR/><BR/>SIVspiceislandveganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13993360181907389563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-7629298003896025942007-11-06T18:30:00.000-08:002007-11-06T18:30:00.000-08:00I've been adding a handful of fresh cranberries to...I've been adding a handful of fresh cranberries to my green smoothies this week. YUM!<BR/><BR/>Cheers!<BR/>Kristen's RawKristen's Rawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15340522295588234162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24141461.post-15268951272512143412007-11-06T17:16:00.000-08:002007-11-06T17:16:00.000-08:00eek, i agree. travelling in southeast asia woke m...eek, i agree. travelling in southeast asia woke me up to how cheaply i can buy several kilos of mangosteens. a street vendor even cracked one open for me to try for free. i was totally shocked when i read about them appearing in New York stores for outrageous prices. <BR/><BR/>they're incredibly tasty but i refuse to be ripped off!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com